There are of course barriers to free will in a vast cosmos of deterministic causes and event chains, however there are so many examples of where we as intelligent creatures have improved our ability to survive and thrive in a deterministic world by using methods based on determinism! The fact that we can actually create theories that meet the predictions that the mathematics describe lets us know that we are understanding the HOW of consciousness and intelligence. There is no need for additional processing in these types of activities and more importantly there is no need for the introduction of time. The discussion on this page doesn’t distinguish between easy problems and the hard problem, so people are talking past eachother. Which is why the subject fascinates me. As long as it discriminates it works and if it works it is explained (and justified). I do not realize who you might be but If you see right and wrong as subjective, then there is no contradiction in two people being right at the same time. Ok so now I’m mad at myself for eating the burger, and this emotion/memory might make the salad win the battle of my brain next time. This is exactly what seems to happen when in a deep sleep (when we don’t dream) or under general anaesthetic. And what then is known of the no thing? I’m trying to find out what the state of research is with regard to the neurology of consciousness (also of conscience and empathy)> 3. To top it all, I also claim that DOS model account of consciousness matches findings by neuroscientists Francis Crick, Christof Koch, Stanislas Dehaene, etc. Matter has no meaning in and of itself. Therefore, I think that they could all contribute to this discussion, even though the headline is “a scientist’s perspective”. When we learn a new task, say riding a bike, writing with a pen, driving a car, our minds seem to be very active in a conscious focused sort of way. Here is a simple example: We see light. And for all I ‘know’ everyone else around me in fact does! Why not try Bernardo Kastrup’s blog (www.bernardokastrup.com) for something different? As I said it is one idea out of many. By contrast, a scientific inquiry into the nature of something being “alive” will not include the existence of some spiritual “life essence” being involved that does not occur in rocks or gases. Forget about how our brains works how smart we are. I like your statement Graeme. It is beyond thinkable concept that only discovered in India (because the primary requirements including Geographical architect play a key role to prepare the ground to enter Spirituality which are available in India) and later on spread across the globe because Indian spirituals have been adventurous by the way. (This has been studied extensively and is a similar process to swarms of bees picking a new home.). We are constantly fooled by the mind which is informed by chemical and electrical processes. What Are Some of the Different States of Consciousness? But that doesn’t mean life isn’t worthy of respect and consciousness with it. Visualisations are taxing on blood sugar and brain space. I’m sorry I cannot give you a more complete answer but hopefully these links will lead you to the places where you may find better answers. Science is about getting the most probable explanation for things. The fact that somehow (spooky or not spooky)…insentient matter gives rise to sentient beings. It explores rather the nature of the experience from within, the thinking entity looking at itself from inside asking “what am I?” and “what is this thing that I am calling my consciousness?”. In fact, it is the only causal account of human consciousness which is (additionally) verifiable with one’s subjective experiences at many levels. How can you test a multiverse theory if you can’t travel to the multiverse. I have described it as, “Flees swallowing elephants”, “Kissing one’s own elbows”, or, “Jumping over one’s own knees”. If this is crazy talk then we explore other alternatives. I noticed that conversations about, “what is going on?”, can start from anywhere a body chooses, and reach conclusions that happen to satisfy the attachments of consciousness in the moment. The same is true even with rather more complex molecules. It seems that a fault in your brain can cause decision making to go awry and thus, this leads to believe that consciousness is governed by the intrinsic properties of the brain. I can only conclude that there must be something about matter and energy fundamentally that has the potential to give rise to what we call awareness or consciousness. That is the bare minimum. Well it is about research being done in the area of AI. I agree that without “novelty” consciousness would not have evolved. How would be go about using our intelligence to explore those possibilities and start testing some theories? So in a sense we are forever because we are causally connected to the universe from its beginning according to modern scientific understanding. Consciousness is the awareness of the self in space and time. Its ok to speculate…unless science can explain it. Can science, philosophy, and faith not have conversations—productive, open-minded, discussions—about this “what if”; which has occupied the minds of so many for so long? Just to push a little further, what about people with Down’s Syndrome, Autism, Parkinson’s Disease, Tourette’s… Do you think they are choosing to be like that of free will? Amy Morin, LCSW, is the Editor-in-Chief of Verywell Mind. How do you guys know for certain that consciussnes is only in the brain when scientist cant find it? Why do they ever need to KNOW / EXPERIENCE anything? This fairly conclusively demonstrates it obeys the laws of thermodynamics and suggests spooky spiritual states are contraindicated. Pursuing the weightiest priority first, over others. It is a good start to point to the observed correlations. The phrase “a group of scientists believe that…” is a journalistic phrase to add credibility to some idea or hypothesis, usually in the absence of evidence. The staffing is considered as an important function of management as,i) It helps in discovering and obtaining competent personnel for various jobs.ii) It makes for higher performance, by putting right person on the right job.iii) It ensures the continuous survival and growth of the enterprise through the succession planning for managers. When you contemplate the universe, part of the universe becomes conscious of itself. For example if a child spends most of his childhood practicing and playing basketball, the parts of the brain involved in that are going to develop more. In order for the brain to create our internal model of the forever remote external reality, we need to process all incoming information including signals from our body itself. Well said! Is not that like saying we have access to the effects of pain but not to pain itself? https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/22/googles-ai-translation-tool-seems-to-have-invented-its-own-secret-internal-language/. Furthermore, it allows the brain to share ideas with itself in an inwardly directed process. There is only missing pieces to the puzzle. Free will sets policy and generally gives broad direction. Atoms don’t have consciousness. Conscious is the state of persistent changes. We know that there is a limited amount of elements that everything is made off. besides explaining how all such phenomena work. Your simply saying “flirting with the way we experience it”. This ever-shifting stream of thoughts can change dramatically from one moment to the next, but your experience of it seems smooth and effortless. If those conditions are met then our confidence in the explanatory theory grows. are more advanced features of soul, described both in Bible and Vedas, which must be explainable using the brain theory of consciousness. If you think of something that disgusts you you can literally make yourself sick. It then produces hypotheses which would explain if true and satisfy other criteria such as reliable predictions and novel predictions. The quality of an organism’s consciousness is represented by the level of integration. It also implies that consciousness could be an integration of cognitive processing at a certain level or threshold of activity. Where is the line of interconnection and complexity drawn that marks the rise to internal experience? 3. Thanks very much for your interest. “If there is no free will, there is no requirement of consciousness”. Our brain generates an em-field that encompasses a significant fraction of its neurones. The problem becomes hard when trying to “reduce” consciousness or when we make it an objective science. I believe a Creator gave us Consciousness , if you choose not to believe this it is no problem . In particular, we don’t know anything about the physical that gives us good reason to think that consciousness can’t be wholly physical. From what I understand about quantum theory, evwrything is probability. In fact, the memory in these advanced animals takes the form of a solid long-term memory which can be used to perform certain intelligent tasks. The assumption here seems to be that consciousness is simply an epiphenomenon of brain activity, which is one view amongst many. So-called “consciousness” is simply an aspect of mind and mind is how we escape being locked into the actual present, a capacity that allows us to “visualise” and “actualise” possible states of affairs, a somewhat mixed blessing it seems but which allowed us to outstrip and exploit less flexible creatures. So that analogy breaks down, unless the author is suggesting that an amoeba is conscious. This provides the motivation to act as David Hume observed. This bear of little brain is tired and needs to nod off. Science explained it away as illusory at best. This seems to be consistent with how we think the world works in general and how our minds work in particular. Is it something to do with replies to replies? And if consciousness evolved, what state marks a beginning of consciousness and its progressive evolution? Doctors and healthcare professionals may use different assessments to measure and assess levels of consciousness. But obviously our brains do much more than help us find food or escape danger. In order to competently survive and reproduce in such a world we have to be able to understand beliefs (which motivate) and replicate them. In fact, reality itself would not have come about. All the empirical evidence suggests it is simply a higher level brain function that is somehow connected to behavioural flexibility in social and cultural contexts. To this end, we could then take one step further and say that we are never really sure of what we are seeing in the first place. The only coherent resolution is to replace it with a “what” “how” distinction. Much like religious theories for the change in weather of times gone by or now, our discussions over consciousness. Perhaps consciousness is what naturally emerges when physical properties reach a certain state. Well no, sadly it’s not quite that simple. If you believe it is irrelevant to this discussion then you miss the point completely. It merely provides circumstances of suffering that, through agitating the dying animal, may actualize the intangible aspect of our nature. Often you can only assess your progress by looking back at your tracks. Everything in the end is a leap of faith, even science. The nature and complexity of that network determining the nature and complexity of the conscious phenomenon. In probably multiple brain locations, complex neurological structures will be constantly cross referencing between the changing 3D “models”, both “real” and “fabricated”, both “past” and “current”, both “predicted” and “actual”, from the viewpoint of each sense, of each identified object in the “mindscape” and of the ebb and flow of “pattern” and “novelty”, as time passes. No it isn’t that simple unfortunately. Modern science is distinct in its approach and successful in its results, so it now defines what science is in the strictest sense of the term. But before we define what makes up an altered state, it is important to establish what consciousness is. Because along with your red apple cells, all your blue cells will fire, all your bicycle. 2. Why is a subjective view on right and wrong meaningless? My belief is that human consciousness is not supernatural or transcendental. “What does this mean for us?are we not living?”. I summarise your account by claiming “consciousness” as the collective noun for a bundle of interacting physical processes. Primitive animals, faced with more than one problem at a time, develop ways of prioritising based on mechanical gauges. For example, in one moment you may be focused on reading this article. For instance, if you’re going to propose an ontological theory that amounts to panpsychism (which is what IIT does amount to, effectively), you need to look in-depth at the work of the philosopher Alfred North Whitehead, who was the most significant thinker of modern times with regard to panpsychist philosophy and influenced a number of theoretical scientists, including Dave Bohm. It’s the attractive and repellant forces that constitutes atoms, molecules, cells, organisms, sensation and cognition. i stand and stare at atheism and think, “yeah probably” Obviously, this was a very subjective process, but it helped inspire further research on the scientific study of consciousness. A nervous system correlate of this could be a spinal reflex in the human – finger detects heat, message is sent up to spine which relays a message straight back, contracting muscles to move hand. “No it isn’t that simple unfortunately. These questions are difficult to answer, even though consciousness is so fundamental to our existence. Whenever I engage with some people in the discussion of consciousness, free will comes up. It says you have a soul, and that soul has created you. That might be the reason why mental illnesses are so tough to cure , because it is inside a cellula where the problem might actually be . The second time they get more familiar with the course, and by the third, fourth, or maybe fifth time, depending on the intelligence of the mouse, they know the way. 1. To put it differently, if I say that 2+2-2=2, you cannot blame me for my opinion. Monocellulars known as slime molds have no central nervous system but behave like conscious intelligent creatures. Regarding free will, I think we do have it, but only when we choose to. For example, Tononi has carried out experiments using transcranial magnetic stimulation to induce activity in the human brain whilst awake or asleep. As Vedanta says it is not expressible through any intellectuals processes. I just simply refute any claims about consciousness that depends on non-materialism. I found refuge from it in creative works. If your about to suggest “we” experience ideas, the usual time honoured fantasy, why not just say we experience the world, and the resulting ideas (pictures, simulations, constructions) is how we experience it. So in my opinion if human consciousness is purely biological and not Quantum or not something else then String Theory is absolutely wrong, and Extraterrestrial or Extradimensional Life like us does not exist. The only causal account of consciousness is offered by DOS model, which says that it is a result of the optimizing aspects of the evolutionary process (consciousness allows us to consume information that is necessary to reach our goals in an optimized manner). 1) repetitive Their definition of ‘consciousness’ appears to be confused either with human intelligence or the condition of wakefulness. So we can see there are different kinds of consciousness that exists even within our own mind like a hierarchy. In the realm of scientific inquiry, alot of what “seems like bullshit” can lead to truth and in many cases, turn out to be true. I feel that describing an experience in greater detail shouldn’t take away from the experience. The brain generates its own decisions, but such freedom is pre-programmed (determined). It definetly requires a feed back loop between unified systems within itself. These forms of life can’t run to a watering hole when thirsty or hunt for food as they aren’t mobile. The only thing I know for certain is that I am conscious of a perception and an experience. There is a sense in which creatures adapt and respond at the group and collective level. The question is `to be or not to be?´. The universe is always consistent because it has all the relevant information, the human mind isn’t because it doesn’t! ~ Unconsciousness occurs when our body is veiled from the outside senses, and the still functions in an intelligent manner that sustains our bodies life, with little control of our physical actions or choices. The prime question remains- what causes the thing to acquire, manipulate and store information? Any account that suggests a miraculous suspension of the laws on energy and thermodynamics is immediately dismissed by me. We always say she is not “herself” at times. In other words if you are looking at a red ball the neurons do not cause you to see red, they ARE the red (in your brain). As we might say, stimulated but not overly so, and calm but not bored. Intelligence and problem solving require awareness as a part of conciousness and if you subscribe to the idea that the brain is like a computer, then it follows that it should be possible to one day create conscious machines. (It kind of replaces the problem. The problem is to say consciousness is just brain activity is reductionist. It seems quite unnecessary. So far science can only observe the correlations but not the cause. I think that consciousness cannot be what you propose. The cells at the higher levels need to be highly interconnected but if all the cells in the brain were too interconnected then you would really be back to square one, where the whole system is either on or off. There is a theory which places theories in a level of consciousness. This much we can correlate for certain. The thought of not seeing my mom ever againg is hard to imagen.Terrifyed of death btw. The convergence of widely differing disciplines increases our confidence level. You are correct to say that we all have such an intimate knowledge of consciousness. Was Plato right all along? Unfortunately some philosophers have come to the same conclusion and checked out. Wow! ~ Have a great day and help create a better future with wisdom and mutually respectful choices. This suggests to me that C” is no more and no less than brain function “at a certain level”. I won’t get into the weeds with what is real and what is not real. This occurs when we are alerted by our senses while being awake. The list of a system’s possible states is called its “repertoire” in IIT. The details of this approach can be found in the following article: A new perspective on the functioning of the brain and the mechanisms behind conscious processes. Samkhya, which is a part Vedas, describe soul theory in details. These allow us to assess the significance of the present point in time with respect to the past. No. So I think that when explaining consciousness from a scientific point of view, philosophy can be useful. There is a difference in mindset when it comes to a philosophical analysis and a scientific one and I won’t try to convert your thinking. My response is: Rather than pretending that these observations and the (untested) inferences which some of the more speculative scientists draw from them are an explanation of what consciousness *is*, the author would have been better to settle for the less grandiose task of describing what consciousness begins to look like from the outside. Mystical constructs of “consciousness” are ever remote from scientific enquiry, as they are based on postulated entities and forces which, despite claiming to hugely influence and participate in the workings of reality are totally undetectable by any scientifically robust means. I don’t think that is the case either. I can believe you are conscious because you responded to my post. Descartes proposed the idea of cogito ergo sum ("I think, therefore I am"), suggested that the very act of thinking demonstrates the reality of one’s existence and consciousness. I know when I am drooling, when my heart is racing or when I have an erection. and the external environment by means of feedback and The exceptionalism accorded humanity seems unfortunately associated with a contempt for other creatures (and all too frequently races). We believe that animal’s brains do process information in the same way, yes. I think it is highly possible that our consciousness is a product of the em-field generated by our brain and that the conscious em-field of the brain influences neuronal firing. Tononi believes that unconsciousness is brought on when the system becomes fragmented and connectivity in the brain decreases. While interacting in our day-to-day life, we need to act or react to bodily processes and the happenings in the world, sometimes instantly, to provide us beneficial outcomes. reptiles, birds and lower mammals) their brain’s neural connections become increasingly complex, and the consciousness progresses to provide them with a longer memory and, more importantly, in a better organized fashion. Perhaps consciousness is comparative to electricity. That we learn to hear inwardly creates the illusion of consciousness.Take away this and we again are just left with experience of sensory input , in the purest form this is yoga meditation. But one can never say for certain String Theory is a fact. Indeed the higher brain activity the more interlinked and quickly accessed our retained experiance or knowledge becomes, which allows for faster information recovery and greator possibilities of imagination. FREE WILL – in detail I dont think we “have” a soul. As to where thoughts and experiences arise is up for debate. While it may seem a far reach to suggest that consciousness is purely a state of high interconnectivity, what Tononi has done is to present the beginnings of a tangible scientific theory, backed by evidence that suggests interconnectivity is crucial for higher brain power. You, like the author of the article, also seem more concerned with the phenomenology of consciousness (in quite a scientific way), i.e. That’s my limit. But let me remind you of a 1927 Physics Conference where the discussion was about the Observer Effect . Mechanisms underlying all that have mentioned in reply are explained as a part of the same framework, but for that, you need to go to WhatisMind.com and understand the DOS model. The characteristic feature of nervous system is not only to perceive the senses but to hold these perceptions in them for at least a briefest period – i.e. I find some consolation when I am present with my emotions in my daily activities. It’s not about particles being shy. If you mean “how can something as tangible as matter ever give rise to something as immaterial as an experience” well thats a harder question. They have no knowledge of or interest in the discussions on these internet pages – and care less. Whats this got to do with consciousness? it defies the most rudimentary laws of science so while i’m not attacking your position there are empirical reasons to doubt that what you call nonsense is in fact nonsense and i am far less cavalier to be sure of anything like this. The same is true with such concepts as “awareness”, “consciousness”, “thought”, “illusion”, “perception”, “reality” and so on. What function does consciousness server, why is needed? Something along those lines anyway. The fact that I am only here for a while, gives my life urgency, and makes it like a story. Of course not. That should be the purpose of life.But experience itself is the only thing that is a constant. So in a way we can manipulate this. True, to a degree, however this puts religious people into the rather uncomfortable territory of admitting that, at best, they too are agnostic. Solid arguments. Understanding different levels of consciousness can help healthcare professionals spot signs that someone might be experiencing a problem. Thanks for the link. If it was the individual’s experience would continue unabated and consistently reported accordingly. Their words , not mine , clearly it exists . The study of the brain on Psychodelics show how the brain when in altered states can produced feelings of euphoria and open up greater mental strengths and abilities. Living beings comes pre-programmed with logics and higher-organisms like humans have dynamic logic generation in brain. This has developed to such an extent that we have many connections between our thalamus and our cerebrum (see my final diagram). dark energy? Animal’s brains also process information in this way (don’t they?).. There still is right and wrong because we experience right and wrong. While small, tight-knit groups have been able to establish terminologies that serve them effectively in such exploration, the effectiveness of their language drops off radically when interacting with people who are not steeped in their perspectives and worldviews. I don’t really think we have free will at all, or at least not much of it. Consciousness may be a byproduct of entropy. Such a brain needs to be alert, ensuring it is getting as clear a picture of what is happening in the 3D world as possible, ensuring it does not miss the anomaly that could mean pain or death. Indeed, psychology is often referred to as a pseudoscience, as its premises historically have been largely based on mystical/spiritual concepts of what consciousness and personality are.
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